Thoughts and questions on Moving Overseas
If you’re thinking of moving abroad, it can be overwhelming because there’s so many different things to consider. I’m going to share with you what I did and some options that I think have worked for other people.
Research and criteria and visit
Obviously doing research on the internet is important. I started by watching videos on you tube about different countries and following the list of most recommended places for I also read a few travel blogs like this one.
Just know that every country is pretty big and has a variety of climates, cost-of-living areas, crime, etc. Do not jump to any conclusions based one or two videos. Also know when you actually get to the country even though you were convinced that that particular part of the country was for you once you get there, it may not have the right feeling. Panama checked logical boxes for me, but the feeling was not there. Hua Hin in Thailand checked all the boxes, but did not feel right, at least in the parts I visited.
A lot of the videos that talk about cost of living do not include all costs and a lot of the big names giving recommendations do not even consider things that to me are the most important like will the country tax me and how difficult is it to get a visa. It is great to recommend Vietnam but if you are looking for a retirement visa, they do not have one.
As you narrow it down, get on Facebook groups from the countries and cities that you think you’re interested in. You can always ask questions on there and just listening to people answer questions can be very helpful.
Have a list of what your criteria is and how important each item is on that list. For example, for me my list included some of the following:
A beach location. Low cost of living. a walkable area because I did not want to drive or own a car. I wanted it to be warm and not have a lot of bugs. A good infrastructure of Internet, friendly people, other ex-pats. There were other things on my list such as easy to return to the US. Obviously, since I am currently living in Thailand, I had to give up on that piece of the criteria.
It is really good to do a visit to the country and stay as long as you can in each of the areas that you are considering living within that country. You might want to do that and then come back to the states. It is easier to get a retirement visa that way, and possibly other types of visas too.
I did not do it that way I came to Thailand thinking I would stay but I was not sure. I was told I could not get a retirement visa while I was here, I had to go back to the states. I found a visa agent who knew how to do it and I didn’t have to spend the money or take the grueling. horrible flight back home.
Do not listen to advice of the people on the internet (including me) about visas. Talk to a couple of experts who help people get visas for a living.
Can you do it yourself and save money? Yes. But I would not recommend it.
Possessions decisions
Decide what you’re going to do with your possessions. There are a lot of options
1. Sell everything. This to me is 100% commitment you’re not coming back. I don’t know that any of us can really be sure because stuff happens. I did not want to sell my property because of the way real estate prices are going up in the US, I would not be able to buy again if I returned
2. Rent your house out as Airbnb, furnished finders or similar sites fully furnished. I had so many problems renting as an Airbnb landlord, I cannot suggest this, but it could work for you. If you make enough money from Airbnb you might be able to afford to have a company take care of the property for you. This gives you a lot of flexibility on returning home.
3. Put your stuff in storage. I spent a year selling things off that I didn’t need. I wasn’t ready to make the trip yet so I had the time. I didn’t make that much money on the stuff I sold. However, at least there was less to put in storage.
4. You can hire a management company or realtor to rent your house out. I had the move-in date for my tenants be two weeks after I left. I was prepared to let someone move in a few days before I left because I stayed with a friend those last few days, that is not how it ended up happening
Since I am a realtor, it was easy for me.
Management fees are high. They usually want one month’s rent to put someone in there and 10% a month of your rent each month. They will take care of arranging for repairs, answering questions and collecting rent.
If you are not willing to do this, there are other options. Before you leave, you can put your house on Zillow and rent it yourself. It is a big hassle but most cost effective way. if you have a friend who is a realtor who is willing to help you a little with the contract it would be helpful.
You can always hire a realtor just to get it rented and not pay the monthly maintenance fee and handle that yourself. I drew up an incredibly informative document for my tenants trying to cover most scenarios that could happen. For example, my kitchen sink often clogs up they know exactly who to call. I gave them several choices of plumbers. I have used in the past. They can call and pay and I reimburse them or I can arrange to pay the plumber via Venmo Or zelle
I also gave them names of friends in the neighborhood in case there is an emergency and they cannot contact me because it’s the middle of the night here in Thailand
My only issue will be when these tenants leave, I will have to hire someone to help me get new tenants.
Flying Over
I booked a one way ticket. If I decided to go home, I would just buy another ticket. If I did not like Thailand, I was not coming right back home. I was going to check out other countries so I could not book a round trip ticket. Some people said immigration in Thailand would demand a round trip ticket or some ticket saying you were not staying. This did not happen. What I did to be safe was book a cheap ticket to Cambodia with Trip.com. They allowed me to buy travel insurance and cancel the flight for any reason. I did not. Did not use the flight and cancelled it and only lost $20. Do not try this with Cheapo airlines. I tried it once with them and they insisted on a reason and a doctors report when I said I was sick. They made it very hard. I will never suggest anyone use that booking service.
Visas
Each country has its own visa process. This relates to Thailand only.
If you are a US citizen, you will be given a visa upon arrival. You just go right through customs and they ask you how long you are staying and stamp your passport for however many days is allowed at that time. They recently changed it to 60 days but it could be different when you are reading this. Then on day 59 or 60 you better leave to go somewhere else or have gone to immigration and asked for an extension. You can get one extension and then next time you may need to do what we call a border run where you fly out to another country and come back or take a van with a group of other people across the border and come back to get another extension.
The important thing to note is do not overstay your visa however many days it is. You will be fined for the overstay and it could keep you from coming back in later if you do it too many times.
I would suggest using a visa agent if you are going to stay very long in the country.
Once you know, you’re going to stay, pick a visa that works for you. There are nomad visas, retirement visas, education visas were you learn the language learn to cook or learn thai boxing.
You can also spend 90 days easily in Thailand and then move on to Vietnam for 90 days or 180 and then move on to the Philippines or Malaysia and check out those countries before you commit to one country or whatever country you think you want to move to.
You will have to do 90 day reporting if you have a year visa. This can supposedly be done online. My visa agent did it for me for a fee or you can attempt it yourself. Some people report having trouble doing it online and others have had no issues. Basically immigration just want to know where you and it is possible they will check on where you are staying. They did that to me and I had moved on. Luckily they called me when they could not find me. I told them where I was and they were supposed to come the next day to see me in person. I had the hotel fill out the proper forms and send electronically to immigration and I guess that is why they did not come.
Will it be easy even with an agent. Probably not. Something will be messed up or confusing or have to be redone. Just know that is Thailand. Expect it, roll with it and know eventually it will all work out and you will be ok.
Where to stay
I suggest staying in a hotel or Airbnb while you are in the visa process or on your visit. You can negotiate rent if you are staying more than 30 or 60 days in one location Sometimes depending on if it is high season or not. I use bookings.com or Agoda to find hotels.
Immigration is going to want pictures of you in your residence and a form from the landlord. It is best to have committed to at least 2 weeks to a month in that location so that it remains the same through the initial visa process.
Once you have your visa and you have spent enough time in your chosen location, you will have a good idea where you want to rent or possibly buy. Most people recommend renting for a year. You can buy a condo but you cannot buy a villa on a piece of land unless you buy it with your Thai wife or husband. The same is true for businesses. I do not understand all the laws around that. If I buy, it would be a condo and I probably will just rent unless I find a deal I cannot refuse. I want to remain fluid. Talk to a Thai attorney and/or realtor if you want to buy a house and see if it an be done.
You can find a realtor through referrals on Facebook groups and there are different property sites. See list of apps.
Getting around
Different countries offer different kinds of transportation and some are walkable and some are not. In many southeast Asian countries people rent a motorbike as their mode of transportation. If you plan on doing that, I suggest taking lessons and getting a motorbike license in the US. More accidents happen and deaths in Thailand because of motorbike accidents than anything else. You do not have to have a motorbike license but the education could save your life.
You can rent a car, but it is expensive. Go to AAA and get an international drivers license before you leave the states if you plan to do this.
There a number of Uber like apps like Grab that you can get a ride from in a car or on the back of a bike. Riding on the back of a bike driven by a Grab driver is my preferred transport method because of the low cost. I trust they are good drivers in order to work for Grab and these people were raised riding motorbikes. I will list other apps in the app section.
There are also Taxi’s which are almost always more expensive and in some parts of SE Asian known to try and rip you off.
There are also different kinds of Tuk Tuks depending on where you are which can be inexpensive, There are buses and there are trucks that you ride in the back for a small fee.
Flying from country to country in SE Asia is incredibly inexpensive when booked from here.
Banking
Part of the visa process will probably include getting a bank account in the country you choose. Your visa agent can help you do that. The type visa you choose will determine if you have to deposit a big amount of money or if you are going to have money sent each month to that account.
Many southeast Asian countries operate a lot on cash. I get cash out of the atm to cover my monthly expenses. I take out the largest amount they allow. I have a Charles Schwab account which I set up before leaving the states. They will reimburse ATM fees. Supposedly after a year or two, they will stop doing that. At that time supposedly, you may need a relative in the states to make a charge or two to make it look like you are still in the states. I have not done that yet.
I also recommend a Wise account. It is a way to easily transfer money into foreign accounts. You can also use it as a debit card. If you keep your money in US dollars, you can get a nice amount of interest on your money. In order to do the first transfer from Chase to my Thai account, it was a nightmare. If I had put the money in Wise first, it would have been easy.
I still have my Chase bank account and my credit cards through them. If I need to pay someone in the US like the IRS, I can send a check from Chase just like I did before. Supposedly you can get social security to send a check to your foreign account, but I do not do that. It goes to Chase like it did before as well as the rent from my property in the US.
US Mail
Open a traveling mailbox or use a friend or relative’s address. I am using Traveling Mailbox. My mail goes there. They notify me and take a scan of the outside of the envelope. If it looks important, I have them open and scan it. Otherwise, they can shred it.
If it is a check, I have it set up that they can send the money directly to my Charles Schwab account. That is good to do before you leave the states but probably can be done from a foreign country. It was a pain to set up, but works fine now. There are charges and if I had a relative do it, it would be cheaper.
Internet and Phones
My visa agent helped me set up a phone account with a Thai company. I needed a Thai phone number to get my visa. It costs me around $13 a month. That includes data on the phone. Your iphone which has built in sim cards (and probably other phones) can have your old number from the US and a Thai number. You can toggle between the 2.
I kept my T-mobile account so I can get texts from friends and send texts. If I talk on that number, they charge me. That runs me around $20 or so a month. It does not include data. Some people transfer their phone number to google and use google. I did not do that because I have had a google number before and did not find it reliable.
My contacts normally call me and/or text on What’s app or Signal. These are apps from your phone. If I need to call someone on a land line, I use Skype. You can prepay for phone calls to a non-skype user and the fees are low.
Insurance
There are a number of travel insurance companies that offer insurance for anywhere in the world except the US. I am still on travel insurance and am changing over to a plan I found through facebook when my travel insurance expires. There are companies who offer insurance for people over 70. Not as many and it is of course more expensive, but they exist. Some Visa require you have insurance. The one I am on does not, but I still want it in case of a big expense.
Normal checkups are not expensive so I am not worried about that. You cannot use Medicare here, They may be able to medivac you home if needed but check to be sure.
You will need to keep your Medicare if you ever plan on using it again. Otherwise, if it lapses, you have to pay big fees to get it back. It is worth chatting with your Medicare provider about what it will cost you and what parts you want to keep.
While all my other expenses in Thailand are extremely low, medical insurance is costing more than I paid for Medicare in the states. It still comes out much cheaper to live here.
Taxes
The US is one of the few countries that will tax you no matter where you live. You still have to file each year. Your rental income, dividends, pension, etc will still be taxed. If you start a side business on the internet, the first $110k or so will not be taxed, but check with your CPA about that.
If you try and start a Thai business, there will be taxes here as well as other red tape.
Currently they are saying we will have to file our taxes with the Thai government next year. Only money brought into the country will be taxed. Pensions supposedly will not be taxed.
I would hesitate to put any money in a Thai bank account other than the money that is already there for my visa. I just take money out of atm in my US account to pay cash for my meals and incidentals and rent at my hotel. Hotels will charge you a fee usually for using a credit card.
QUESTIONS AND INFO MORE SPECIFIC TO THAILAND AND OTHER SE ASIAN COUNTRIES
Shopping/Beauty care/finding Doctors etc
My go to shopping is Lazada which is like Amazon. So long as I stay in one place over a week, I can usually get whatever I want delivered to my hotel.
There are also malls and other shops. The sizes here run uber small. I am a size 10 American. Here I am a XXL if I can find it. Tesco Lotus is like Walmart and very popular here if there is one near where you are. Makkro is a good grocery place similar to Costco or Sams groceries.
There are plenty of beauty places and barber shops. Ask on a local facebook group for a referral. I had a fantastic Russian beautician come to my room and do cut and color for me. I have also been to a beauty shop that I found online.
Ask for a referral online for dentists and docs etc. If no answer, google can help. I found an acupuncturist I like and a hormone doctor on google.
There are inexpensive massage places on every corner. An average oil massage will cost you around the equivalent of $10-15. You can ask for referrals or just try out a few places. If you are female, they have never asked me if I wanted a happy ending. I do not know if that is standard for men. It may also depend on the part of town you are in.
There are plenty of gyms, spas and yoga places that are reasonably priced depending on where you are.
There is food delivery service too from Grab and Panda most places. Good prices and if you order from a restaurant nearby it is delivered hot.
Prescriptions:-
If you are on medications, check to see if what you need is offered by the country you visit. In most cases it is, and cheaper. You can often get it at a pharmacy without a doctor prescription.
Eat, Drink and Be Merry
I do not cook. I eat out or use Grab food. I keep yogurt and nuts in the fringe in my room as well as nuts. I may spend just a little more money but not much because food prices are so low. Being single makes a difference too. If there were two or more of us, it might make sense to cook a little.
Makkro, Tops, Tesco Lotus and 7 eleven are the places most people shop for food to cook. 7 eleven is really popular here. There are other shops too. These are the most popular where I have been.
If you eat in a local Thai restaurant and order Thai food, it will be inexpensive normally. Any western food you want can usually be found. It will just cost more. Some areas of Thailand offer different Thai dishes and it is fun to taste them all. Taking a food tour in different cities can be a lot of fun and you learn about what to order.
Most waiters will ask you how spicey you want it. If they do not ask, just tell them a little spicey unless you like the heat. You also normally have to order rice separate. They usually ask but not always.
Thais put sugar in everything. If you do not want sugar in your tea or coffee or other food, just say no sugar or just a little sugar.
In some parts of Thailand there are fresh fruit stands everywhere at inexpensive prices.
Beer and alcoholic drinks are inexpensive. Wine is more pricey and less choices because there is a big import tax on it, Alcohol in the stores cannot be sold during certain hours because of school. It also cannot be sold on some religious holidays or election days unless you to a private club.
Language
If you stick to tourist and expat areas, most Thais speak enough English that you will not have any trouble. When you do, google translate or hand signals work fine. Sometimes it is easier to point to something or make a gesture than look it up on google translate.
It is always good to learn to say hello and thank you which is easy and then gradually learn more as you go. I have not spent enough time doing that yet, but it is on my list. There are online classes or private tutors.
Local Customs
Never ever ever say something in person or online against the Thai government or the king. That is a serious offense and you can go to jail.
If you are pulled over by a cop. Just ask how much is this going to cost me and pay it there even if you are in the right. If it is ever a question between you and a Thai person, the Thai person is right no matter what. It is better not to fight it.
Always show respect and never lose your temper.
Safety
Use common sense. As a single female, do not walk around at night in bar areas. There are certain cities that are worse than others and parts of town that are worse. I have had no trouble walking at night in the areas I have visited.
Crime is overall very low in Thailand. There are not normally pick pockets like in some other countries. I would not leave my purse or phone on a table unattended but if you do, there is a big chance it will still be there.
The Thai people are every respectful and polite. If you reciprocate, you will be fine.
Some people say do not eat the street food. I think it depends on the vendor. I like night markets and most of that food has not been siting there all day. I have not gotten bad sick from street food but I have had the runs from eating from a vendor you had meat sitting out too long.
Do not drink the water. Drink bottled water. Ice in restaurants is fine.
Electricity
You will be able to plug in your phone and laptop and hair dryer into a normal plug. I suggest bringing or buying a multiplug power cord incase there is an electric flux and so you have plenty of plugs for your electronic device. Some hotels have not a lot of plugs in the rooms.
Hobbies and Meeting People
Unless you are a nomad with a job, you may get bored. Think about what hobbies you might want to do and or social groups to join.
1.) I joined a book club. I have a gym and yoga class. I walk 10,000 steps a day either at the beach or exploring different parts of town. I read Audio books or books on kindle because hauling around books can be a pain. I go to a spa and/or just get a massage. I study astrology and sometimes give readings.
2.) I listen to youtube a lot. I watch Netflix and apple tv. I talk to friends on what’s app, I post on social media and look for tips on living in whatever location I am in on social media. I scuba dive and snorkel. I take touristy tours sometimes. I am always looking for ways to meet people because loneliness is one of the few disadvantages of being a new expat..
3.) Learn to talk to everyone, Smile and say hello a lot. I pick up trash on the beach each morning and people come up to me and help pick up or chat. I chat to people sitting at tables near me in restaurants. Pools are great places to meet people who are just hanging out in the water or on the lounge chairs. You never know if they speak English or want to chat, but it does not matter. You will find out and move on if they are not friendly. Chat to people at the gym or spa.
4.) I recently asked a long time Thai expat what restaurants or bars had groups that meet. He gave me an address and time and I may go check out that group. I barged into a group that meets every morning at a restaurant on the beach. They did not seem to really welcome me very much so I have moved on after a couple of visits. Probably if I had kept going, I would have eventually blended in more.
Bar Girls and Dating
Some guys come to Thailand specifically for the bar girls. They are beautiful. Some are girls and some are ladyboys so be careful.
I have met a number of men who have been screwed over by bar girls turned wives. They have gambled away money or been unfaithful or there have been communication/language issues. Of course, these may be the exceptions, but be careful of someone who just wants your money.
I have been out with a few men I met at the spa who were passing through, but overall have not found it to be a great place to meet men to date. That could change over time, but it is not a priority for me.
The Weather
Thailand is a big country. The weather is different on west coast vs east coast and south vs north. Overall pollution is worse in the north around February and March (changes a little each year as farmers burn their crops). Bangkok has bad pollution all the time.
It is overall hot and humid everywhere. If you cannot tolerate heat and humidity, this is not the country or part of the world for you.
I was afraid of rainy season. It is not so bad. It cools off a little and it does not rain all day every day. The last two days here have been overcast and drizzly or rainy off and on. It makes it difficult to plan because the weather apps are almost useless. But we just had 5 days of sun so I really cannot complain much.
There are fewer tourists and hotels charge less and/or you can ask for better bargains on rooms.
The west side has historically had more tsunamis than the east side.
Overall cost of Living
This is a common question on facebook groups. It all depends on what part of Thailand you live in and your tastes and habits. You can live on $1000 a month in some parts of Thailand on a strict budget and eat only local food and maybe not carry health insurance.
I live on around $2500 a month unless I have an extra expense like new glasses or doctor’s appointments or take a tour. I could live on less and probably will when I settle into one place. I eat very good food and do not limit myself to only Thai food. I go to spas and have massages. I do not rent a bike. I eat out almost all meals. I do not go to bars and usually only drink a couple of drinks a week. I am currently in Phuket which is one of the more expensive parts of Thailand. I hear Chang Mai in the north is much less expensive.(but no beach…)
Marijuana and drugs
Currently marijuana is legal and there is a weed shop on every corner. Other drugs are illegal. Magic mushrooms are illegal but happy fruit shakes are openly advertised in some areas. Vaping is illegal but many tourists vape. I think there is a fine if the cops see it and want to stop you. Otherwise, I see it done often.
Supposedly the laws are changing next year on Marijuana, but nothing has passed yet.